Wikipedia: Readers’ emails, miscellaneous
Start from the bottom of the stack
June 22, 2008
It’s unbelievable! Wikipedia can’t… self-reference! It requires “external references.” But this opens the door to all sorts of abuses!
Julien
On June 20, 2008 at 20:41, Jean-Pierre Petit wrote:
Dear Julien,
Can you help this guy with language issues?
JPP
----- Forwarded message ----
From: pascall
Hello,
I tried to add the ban to the English-language page; I asked for an explanation:
“Petit’s ban from the French-language Wikipedia shouldn’t be mentioned.”
The article seems stuck in a low-speed edit war that’s been going on for the past couple weeks, ever since Petit called on his supporters to help him on Wikipedia. Several IP addresses insist that the article must mention Petit’s ban from the French-language Wikipedia. Mentioning this ban isn’t relevant here for two reasons:
No reliable source has ever mentioned it.
Wikipedia:Reliable sources states that
articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.
It’s self-reference to Wikipedia.
Wikipedia:Self-references to avoid states that
Sometimes a problem arises when a notable person, especially a writer or media personality, mentions Wikipedia. There’s a temptation to add any such mention to their Wikipedia article. However, to avoid self-reference, this needs to be balanced against its importance in their overall body of work. For example, a radio host mentioning on one show that he read his Wikipedia biography isn’t a very important event in his overall career. A very rare exception is the article on John Seigenthaler, Sr., because the media attention surrounding his Wikipedia entry is now a notable event in his public life.
My English isn’t good enough to reply :-(
For IRC, I use a web-based access:
You pick a nickname;
then the channel reference: #wikipedia-fr
There’s also specific IRC client software available.
Best regards,
Pascall
[12:09] *** mardi_soir has joined #wikipedia-fr
[12:09] JPP affair: Could someone kindly post a link to Alvaro’s email?
[12:10] Google: jean pierre petit wikipedia
[12:10] Bokken, I just gave it to you in private message.
[12:11] Thanks, LeBron.
[12:11] *** Submarine has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[12:12] Thanks, Pyb.
[12:12] I missed the right page.
[12:13] * esby greets Pymouss
[12:13] * Pymouss greets esby
[12:13] What, Pymouss, fake plates or what?
[12:14] esby: Isn’t that your car?
[12:14] Pymouss: No.
[12:14] esby: And you didn’t steal it?
[12:14] No!
[12:14] Stop messing with me, okay?
[12:14] Please.
[12:15] * Bokken is dismayed.
[12:16] * esby gives Bokken some popcorn.
[12:16] All that’s missing are gunshots; we’d think we’re at OK Corral.
[12:18] http://www.jp-petit.org/nouv_f/wikipedia/wikipedia_derive1.htm#13_6_08
[12:18] It’s somewhere in there.
[12:19] I note with interest JPP’s technique of mixing reality and fantasy, and regularly shifting text around without respecting chronological order.
[12:20] Well...
[12:20] For me, the more he acts like this, the more it confirms my impression that he lacks a few marbles :o
[12:20] Confirmed.
[12:21] Tõkyº
[12:21] <Chaps_the_idol> PieRRoMaN: You have “Durch den Monsun” on your iPod, right?
[12:21] <Chaps_the_idol> I mean, in iTunes?
[12:21] \o/
[12:21] * DainDwarf engages in sexual activity now.
[12:21] DainDwarf: Bookmarking JPP’s site?? I’d rather die!
[12:21] Ooh!
[12:21] WikiSerein: Sex, drugs, and rock ‘n’ roll!
[12:21] LeBron: Why not?
[12:21] * DainDwarf listens to “When He’s Not Around” by The Corrs Album: Talk On Corners.
[12:21] That sucks, you mean.
[12:22] Well, sex, drugs, and rock ‘n’ roll!
[12:22] Anyway, I hope this ends up in JPP’s log.
[12:22] <Alain_r> DainDwarf: I assure you, they’re all stunned when they discover these coded dialogues, worthy of a high school hallway.
[12:22] <Alain_r> Actually, I’m in the same boat; I too get labeled a mediocre nuisance by some folks.
[12:22] <Alain_r> Help us fix this.
[12:22] I prefer helping Wikipedia.
Jean-Pierre Petit
The definition “Pseudonym” is BLOCKED
So I put this definition up to illustrate:
Anonymity
Hello, Mr. Petit. I’m an engineering student in Bordeaux (MATMECA); I closely follow your efforts, which I support, and I admire your tenacity.
Idiots abound in government, TV, among scientists, on Wikipedia—basically everywhere, without any discrimination whatsoever. We’ll be the same way once we stop fighting. Hence we must keep at it.
Regarding the subject at hand, I tried to modify the page about “freedom of speech”
(http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libert%C3%A9_d%27expression)
adding these lines to the paragraph about its limits: “Wikipedia itself is an example of how freedom of speech gets limited; for its own safety, its administrators reserve the right to censor swiftly and without appeal.”
I made this change on the 15th; to my great surprise, it was erased just two days later, with no warning or explanation whatsoever—proof that those lines were justified... Just two days! Are they weakening?
I plan to create an article in the sociology category about gatherings of people with limited mental capacity (idiots, if you prefer) and about how they develop a herd instinct naturally or artificially via a “shepherd.” There’s plenty to write about; you’ll agree...
Good luck; I await your next book.
Good evening, Jean-Pierre,
Apparently Wikipedia users take turns keeping watch on the site 24/7; following (undoubtedly) a visit to your site, the page about pseudonyms on Wikipedia has again been altered.
Here’s the header currently displayed:
This page is the subject of significant disagreement between contributors
and
cannot be modified temporarily.
This protection does not constitute approval of the current version. · Suggest a modification on the discussion page
or
to an administrator. · Protection log.
Things are moving.
But what do these folks actually do in life, aside from monitoring every edited page in real time? Do they have jobs, families? Are they merely geeks who imagine themselves entrusted with some special mission?
Does a person literally die if separated from their computer?
Looking forward to reading from you.
Eric HUMANN
Hello,
The edits we attempt are often analyzed by a bot (software designed to automate certain tasks).
That bot reacts according to preset rules; that explains its lightning-fast response.
Apparently it doesn’t monitor everything, though.
I restored the text regarding your ban on my bio page; it was removed late last night by a French user. I then reposted it under my own blocked account.
Best wishes,
Thierry
PS: I’m on IRC; they’re annoyed by the public posting of their channel details, since they know they’re being watched; some even call them out, making them nervous or slightly paranoid.
Returning to Wikipedia: the IRC channel is a PUBLIC space where many administrators indeed hang out (especially for practical reasons); but as you repeatedly point out, there’s no “code” needed to access it. See the information on this page:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:IRC
Incidentally, a supposedly “coded” or “private” channel uses an access key, its server is private, and the text is often encrypted (with heavy encoding)—none of which applies here.
You can see the #vandalism-fr-wp channel (monitoring vandalism on French Wikipedia) where bots constantly post any detected vandalism/spam (detectable by machines).
Reading excerpts from the channel doesn’t shock me much; that’s exactly what happens whenever conflict arises (which is why I said Alvaro has the courage to still try to reason with them). We see that Anthere too is at the mercy of her admin-friends. As for your seemingly “fruitless” exchange with her: know that the presidency changes this year (elections are underway). I voted for a Chinese contributor with over 50,000 edits on wp:cn; he seems quite open-minded regarding rights issues. He advocates prioritizing user rights over protecting the encyclopedia itself. We’ll see, as they say.
Also, I advise against joining the IRC channel yourself; it’s a very hostile environment for beginners. It’d be a shame not to be able to participate due to lacking technical know-how.
—A2
I’ve been checking what’s happening on IRC; seems it’s only reinforced their silliness rather than curbing it... which is what I feared.
Just a short excerpt apparently addressed to you.
I think I’ll leave it at that for now; I really see no way to bring them to reason. They’ve lived in their own world for years; I doubt they’ll ever leave it.
13:52 DainDwarf: Alain_r: Why not let folks make your bio? (Apart from the HC part.)
13:52 WikiSerein: LeBron: Yes, mahogany looks classier.
13:52 DainDwarf: Wouldn’t that calm the debate down?
13:52 DainDwarf: (Or maybe I just didn’t get it.)
13:52 Poulpy greets everyone.
13:53 PieRRoMaN: DainDwarf: Have you read JPP’s site?
13:53 DainDwarf: Not in detail.
13:53 PieRRoMaN: Hi, Poulpy.
13:53 Anthere2:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metapub#Global_sysops_.28poll.29
13:53 Poulpy: Hi, PieRRoMaN.
13:53 DainDwarf: I recall reading something like “Hihihi, they won’t let us make an article on Alain R; what scoundrels!”
13:53 Alain_r: DainDwarf: Yes.
13:53 * LeBron gives the code to nojhan.
13:53 Nojhan realizes he’s not part of the “cabal.”
13:53 Okki: I’m not even aware of what’s discussed on the BA : )
13:53 Grondin: The link, Alain_r.
13:53 Nojhan: After all, we’re entitled to our own opinions of each other.
13:53 Nojhan: What surprises me is how much attention this is getting.
13:53 Nojhan: Basically, JPP’s just a poor old researcher craving fame.
13:53 Grondin: Wait, I haven’t talked to Hégésippe since yesterday afternoon.
13:53 Alain_r: brb*
13:53 Nojhan: Actually, it’s all differing project visions colliding via means unrelated to the core issue—
13:53 Nojhan: Politics, basically.
13:53 Nojhan: It’s interesting that fr.wp has reached this stage.
13:53 Grondin: Hey, that’s cute!
13:53 LeBron: Nojhan: Absolutely. All dates back to nuclear arbitration.
13:53 * Nojhan realizes this is essentially a huge political game.
13:53 LeBron: Nojhan: Of course. Everything stems from nuclear arbitration.
13:53 * esby heads off to eat.
13:53 StarTrekMan: OSEB !!!!!!!!!!!
13:53 StarTrekMan: OSEB OSEB OSEB * StarTrekMan joins the samba.
13:53 Poulpy: OSEB = OSEBLc?
13:53 StarTrekMan: Dance
Mr. Petit,
Great! I notice the “Pseudonym” page is already semi-protected (impossible to edit unless you’ve had an account for over four days).
I created my account just now, using my real name since I share your view on the stupidity of pseudonyms. In any case, I couldn’t care less about being banned from a site I find uninteresting; but I’d still prefer to stay anonymous.
If I had time, I’d try editing another relevant article tonight, but I don’t (I spend my weekends working; those two emails to you took half my free time, so you see...).
But in four days I’ll also start editing that article, though I doubt it’ll make much difference.
Hope you’re right.
Alexandre Guérin
, Reims