From Rififi to Wikipedia
June 16, 2008
The "traitor" Alvaro
on the spot
I'm glad I stayed a bit longer, because what was simply uninteresting and boring quickly turned into an intense debate about publishing Alvaro's letter on your site. A merciless court-martial quickly formed, including the president of wiki and what I imagine to be her lieutenants. Alain R. was no longer there; he had gone to bed around 1:20 a.m.
I warn you—it's VERY long but explosive. Everyone gets their share, on one hand it's quite amusing, on the other hand frankly alarming. One could define this discussion as a weapon of mass destruction for Wikipedia if it were made public (at least that’s what I think). I’m handing it to you—do with it as you see fit (an hour of discussion on Wikipedia’s IRC).
Enjoy reading and have a good morning.
02:05 Meodudlye: So Alvaro? Are we buddies with JPP?
02:08 Alvaro: Meodudlye, buddy... that's debatable. He seems less horrible/con/nuisible than some here try to make him out to be.
02:08 Meodudlye: Alvaro: hahahaha. Sorry, it slipped out.
02:09 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Is it true the email you sent him?
02:09 Meodudlye: It's not that bad to reveal a contributor's identity, really.
02:09 Meodudlye: Besides, I'll reveal yours since it's no big deal, okay Alvaro?
02:09 Alvaro: WikiSerein??? I'm lost; which email?
02:09 WikiSerein: Alvaro: an email he reproduced on his site.
02:10 WikiSerein: where you explain that Alain is a fool
02:10 WikiSerein: etc.
02:10 Alvaro: arf, I don't often visit his site.
02:10 WikiSerein: and that Grimlock is Alain's little pet.
02:10 Alvaro: pfff... people... calm down.
02:11 WikiSerein: Wait, let me find the link...
02:11 Meodudlye: Alvaro: no, explain yourself. You say you don't feel like the old sage of WP, but you send emails to banned users for good reasons saying it's not nice.
02:11 Meodudlye: You should be consistent.
02:11 Meodudlye: http://www.jp-petit.org/nouv_f/wikipedia/wikipedia_derive1.htm for WikiSerein
02:12 Alvaro: Meodudlye, I don't take you for a fool, but for a pain in the neck.
02:13 Meodudlye: Alvaro: ha, for me it's the opposite.
02:13 Alvaro: Nice reversal.
02:13 Anthere3: hmm, the email
02:13 WikiSerein: Alvaro: have you looked?
02:13 Anthere3: between the violation of privacy regarding yadayada
02:14 Anthere3: and the publication of Alvaro's email
02:14 Alvaro: What now?
02:14 Meodudlye: Anthere3: no, it seems he's less annoying/harmful than we'd like to believe, according to Alvaro.
02:14 Anthere3: and the nonsense he says about the so-called message from my page that supposedly disappeared (though it never did...)
02:14 Alvaro tries to swim
02:14 Anthere3: It's possible you were too harsh banning him for life.
02:14 WikiSerein: Alvaro: http://www.jp-petit.org/nouv_f/wikipedia/wikipedia_derive1.htm
Scroll down a bit on the page.
02:15 Chaps_the_idol pulls out popcorn
02:15 Anthere3: But yes... he seems annoying and harmful.
02:15 Anthere3: Speaking of which...
02:15 Anthere3: Currently...
02:15 WikiSerein: Anthere3: he seems to be cracking up especially :/
02:15 Anthere3: How many people has Fr a banned for life?
02:15 Chaps_the_idol: Hello Meodudlye Anthere3
02:15 Anthere3: He's completely paranoid.
02:15 Anthere3: Hi, chaps.
02:16 WikiSerein: Anthere3: What's the difference between banned for life and indefinitely blocked?
02:16 Anthere3: And I'm 39, not 37.
02:16 Anthere3: He's into math.
02:16 Anthere3: hmm
02:16 WikiSerein: Anthere3: he's gallant with you ;-)
02:16 Anthere3: Banned by the ArbCom?
02:16 Meodudlye: Anthere3: by the admins.
02:16 Alvaro: pfff... JPP... something unclear... but Alain-r settling scores with JPP, either on the IAP site or on WP—still less clear.
02:16 Meodudlye: Collegial decision.
02:16 Anthere3: Wasn't he judged by the ArbCom?
02:16 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Did you really write this email?
02:17 Alvaro: Which one?
02:17 Meodudlye: Alvaro: damn it, Alain_r isn't settling scores with JPP. Don't say nonsense.
02:17 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Read the link I gave you—it's in bright blue.
02:17 WikiSerein: You can't miss it.
02:17 Alvaro: Yes; he presents him as a lesser fool.
02:17 Meodudlye: No, he presents him as someone who knows nothing about the field where Alain_r is an expert.
02:17 Meodudlye: It's not the same thing.
02:18 Meodudlye: It's like if you told a mountaineer he knows nothing about boats, you see?
02:18 Chaps_the_idol finds this story smells bad upon reading the email.
02:18 Anthere3: What does "Inérisme" mean?
02:18 Alvaro: You yourself told me privately that JPP was an expert on black holes.
02:19 Alvaro was talking to meo
02:19 Anthere3: My husband burst out laughing when he read JPP's bio.
02:19 Meodudlye: You yourself said you don't consider yourself the old sage of WP.
02:19 Anthere3: He mentioned pyramid theory a month or two ago.
02:19 Anthere3: Glad I found the author...
02:19 Alvaro: argl... slippery argumentation.
02:19 Meodudlye: Anthere3: yes, that pyramid thing is pretty good.
02:19 WikiSerein: Alvaro: please read this email...
02:20 Anthere3: There was an article in Sciences et Vie recently.
02:20 Alvaro: [[inérisme]]
02:20 Alvaro: WikiSerein, which one?
02:20 Anthere3: And his favorite phrase
02:20 Alvaro is swimming
02:20 WikiSerein: Alvaro: I'll end up posting it on the channel.
02:20 Meodudlye: Alvaro: It's only been four times we've given you the link...
02:20 Anthere3: It's
02:20 Anthere3: He is also deeply interested in Egyptology, a field in which he recently proposed a theory on pyramid construction methods. This work has not been published in any peer-reviewed specialized journal.
02:21 WikiSerein: Alvaro: I've given you the link twice...
http://www.jp-petit.org/nouv_f/wikipedia/wikipedia_derive1.htm
02:21 Anthere3: because he heard all my conversation with JPP on the phone
02:21 Anthere3: and especially the discussion about peer validation and review aspects
02:21 Alvaro: I hate being given links on IRC... which have been blacklisted on WP.
02:22 WikiSerein: Alvaro: What's the connection?
02:22 Meodudlye: Uh, what connection?
02:22 Chaps_the_idol: Huh?
02:22 Alvaro: Two.
02:22 Anthere3: There's no inérisme on Wikipedia...
02:22 WikiSerein: Anthere3: It's not in the TLFI either.
02:23 Chaps_the_idol: Well, we don't want a clash, we just want some clarification about this email and this story.
02:23 WikiSerein: Anthere3: it's irénisme
02:23 Meodudlye: Maybe it was "integrisme" that didn't go over well?
02:23 Alvaro: Anthere,
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irénisme
02:23 Meodudlye: Chaps_the_idol: Did you see the Turkish match?
02:23 WikiSerein: "which calms tensions"
02:23 Anthere3: Ah yes...
02:23 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Should I copy the email to you in private message?
02:24 Anthere3: Irénisme: A mindset where one tolerates serious errors calmly, due to an exaggerated desire for peace and conciliation.
02:24 Anthere3: Ah yes!
02:24 PieRRoMaN: Oooooh
02:24 PieRRoMaN is back
02:24 PieRRoMaN: Can't sleep :(
02:24 Meodudlye: WikiSerein: Is it synonymous with "wikibisounours" in your opinion? :-)
02:24 Chaps_the_idol: Why this email??
02:24 Alvaro: WikiSerein, yes, I'm having trouble following; on JPP's site, he talks about his little chat with ant...
02:25 WikiSerein: Meodudlye: I don't know.
02:25 Chaps_the_idol: Why this email??
02:25 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Well, just scroll down then.
02:25 PieRRoMaN: Chaps_the_idol: Which email?
02:25 Meodudlye: Damn it, Alvaro, you know how to scroll a webpage down, don't you?
02:25 WikiSerein: You'll see a turquoise blue text.
02:25 Chaps_the_idol will be annoying until he gets an answer.
02:25 Meodudlye: Alvaro: Either do it or search for "motard" on the page.
02:25 PieRRoMaN: Chaps_the_idol: Which email?
02:25 WikiSerein: And there it's supposed to be your email.
02:25 Alvaro: Sorry, I'm not going to hang around JPP's place.
02:25 Chaps_the_idol: PieRRoMaN:
http://www.jp-petit.org/nouv_f/wikipedia/wikipedia_derive1.htm
02:25 Meodudlye: PieRRoMaN: the one Alvaro sent to JPP saying WP was full of bastards.
02:25 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Neither am I.
02:25 Chaps_the_idol: Either this email is a fabrication by JPP or it's yours.
02:26 PieRRoMaN: Ah, that one.
02:26 Asclepias: pfff... I've rarely seen someone dodge a question for so long without apparent reason.
02:26 PieRRoMaN: I arrive right in the middle of an interrogation, it seems.
02:26 Chaps_the_idol: No, we just want some clarification, to clear things up and stop talking in circles.
02:27 Alvaro: I wrote to JPP saying, roughly, that there are fools on wp:fr, but that's normal—we're only humans.
02:27 PieRRoMaN pulls out the torture kit, popcorn, and Coca-Cola
02:27 Meodudlye doesn't read the same thing in this email as Alvaro does.
02:27 Alvaro: And that there are plenty of good people too.
02:28 WikiSerein: Alvaro: That's not quite what we can read :/
02:28 Alvaro: But where?
02:28 Meodudlye reads personal attacks like: (with contributors like him, no surprise ;-) I think he's trying to modify WP from within.
02:28 Chaps_the_idol: Did you know this kind of email would be made accessible to everyone?
02:28 Alvaro: Ah... thanks, Chaps_the_idol, I'm starting to understand.
02:28 WikiSerein: Alvaro: "In any case, I initiated arbitrations against admins, which is what they reproach me for ;D
02:29 WikiSerein: In the last case, against Grimlock, one of Alain-r's 'little soldiers.'"
02:29 WikiSerein: and others...
02:29 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Understand that we're asking questions, even so...
02:29 Alvaro: Well, JPP messed up by producing my email.
02:29 Meodudlye: Hahahaha
02:30 Meodudlye: Impossible, JPP isn't mean.
02:30 PieRRoMaN: lol
02:30 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Did he invent your words?
02:30 Meodudlye: Nor harmful.
02:30 Chaps_the_idol: I understand you're suddenly hit with this and it's not what you wanted, but understand we might have many questions about your intentions :s
02:30 Alvaro: But those who messed up on WP... well... they messed up too.
02:30 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Either he reproduced your email or he invented it. But be clear, please.
02:30 WikiSerein: Alvaro: It's still a stab in the back, after all...
02:30 WikiSerein: You who preach wikilove...
02:30 Alvaro: I don't care.
02:31 PieRRoMaN knew this discussion would happen sooner or later.
02:31 Alvaro: There's a problem, we need to solve it.
02:31 WikiSerein: And do you think that's how it gets solved?
02:31 WikiSerein: By going to undermine people at someone who hates WP?
02:31 PieRRoMaN thinks supporting JPP is anything but solving the problem.
02:31 Meodudlye: PieRRoMaN: But yes, JPP is actually a nice guy.
02:32 Meodudlye proposes unbanning JPP.
02:32 WikiSerein: Alvaro: What's the actual problem?
02:32 Alvaro: WikiSerein, JPP doesn't hate WP—he sends plenty of links to our articles.
02:32 Meodudlye would like to know what problem Alvaro is talking about.
02:32 hegesippe3 prefers listening to the "Air des bijoux": it's less depressing, cf.
http://www.nataliechoquette.ca/
02:32 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Stop... and read his site.
02:32 Alvaro: WikiSerein, not enough time.
02:32 WikiSerein: Alvaro: He spends all his time slagging off WP—he calls for vandalism.
02:33 WikiSerein: Alvaro: So educate yourself before going to support him!
02:33 hegesippe3: WikiSerein, you're wasting your time: he's irredeemable.
02:33 WikiSerein: He insults people, constantly mocks everyone.
02:33 Alvaro: WikiSerein, I talked to him privately—I didn't get the impression he was a clueless fool.
02:33 WikiSerein: So before going to support him, shouldn't you read first?
02:33 WikiSerein: Alvaro: I'm not saying he's stupid.
02:33 Arria returns from eating a piece of rhubarb pie and sees the channel in distress.
02:33 PieRRoMaN: Exactly, he knows very well what he's doing.
02:33 WikiSerein: But that he hates WP, yes.
02:33 PieRRoMaN: And he really pisses us off.
02:34 Alvaro: No, he doesn't hate WP.
02:34 Anthere3: Future Alithia
02:34 Meodudlye: Alvaro: Of course he does.
02:34 WikiSerein: Anthere3: Not even future...
02:34 Meodudlye: Alvaro: If you can't see it, that's your problem.
02:34 Anthere3: Well, second Alithia.
02:34 Alvaro: Maybe jealous.
02:34 Chaps_the_idol: arf
02:34 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Take the time, once, to read his texts without any prior favorable bias toward him.
02:34 Meodudlye: Alvaro: Not at all. How could he be jealous of an encyclopedia?
02:34 Meodudlye: ?
02:34 Arria serves rhubarb pie and tea to everyone.
02:34 Meodudlye is jealous of a football.
02:35 WikiSerein: Arria: s/du/de la
02:36 Alvaro: Personally, I don't care about your nonsense. Alain-r is at war with JPP, whom I didn't know... well, too bad.
02:36 Meodudlye: Alvaro: That's not what we're talking about. Avoid bringing in people you dislike every time we talk about you.
02:37 Alvaro: Alain-r uses the resources of the [[IAP]] to settle scores with JPP... I don't care.
02:37 Chaps_the_idol: Isn't this entirely due to your hatred of Alain_r?
02:37 WikiSerein: Alvaro: It's not about supporting Alain, but about not appreciating that you undermine WP from behind while preaching wikilove and kindness on WP.
02:37 Alvaro: Uh...
02:37 Meodudlye: Alvaro: You didn't read the link on Alain's professional site carefully.
02:37 WikiSerein: Alvaro: File an arbitration against Alain—it seems to be the best way to get him out of WP...
02:38 WikiSerein: That would make one more.
02:38 Meodudlye: WikiSerein: Exactly!
02:38 Alvaro: But I don't care about Alain-r's rant, JPP's site... what matters is WP!!!
02:38 Meodudlye: Alvaro: You're not credible when you say that.
02:38 PieRRoMaN: Damn freenode!
02:38 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Don't you feel like you're harming WP by saying that?
02:38 hegesippe3: And then we'll need an arbitration against Hégésippe, then another against WikiSerein.
02:38 Meodudlye: Especially with the arbitrations you launch to get rid of people you dislike.
02:38 Meodudlye: hegesippe3: +10
02:39 Alvaro: plop plop...
02:39 hegesippe3: Meodudlye, don't worry, we'll get rid of him eventually.
02:39 WikiSerein: Alvaro: We already have enough opponents like this...
02:39 WikiSerein: No need to be stabbed in the back.
02:39 WikiSerein: Especially with personal arguments.
02:39 Meodudlye: Alvaro: You're lucky there are many people who still think you're genuinely interested in WP, whereas all that matters to you is that User:Alvaro be the oldest contributor on WP and that no one dares tell you you're completely out of your mind.
02:39 hegesippe3: WikiSerein, he's actually an expert.
02:40 Meodudlye: hegesippe3: Do you think we'll manage?
02:40 Romanceor: Hello #wikipedia-fr
02:40 WikiSerein: This disgusts me about WP, all this...
02:40 PieRRoMaN: pfff
02:43 hegesippe3: Meodudlye, in terms of posting a request for desysop on November 29th (which is understandable, as representative of the CAr), but then pushing provocation to the point of casually joining birthday wishes on December 3rd: that was enough for me to gauge the character's perversity.
02:43 Alvaro: Meodudlye, calm down.
02:43 Meodudlye: Alvaro: I'm perfectly calm, precisely. Your Wikipedia behavior makes me sick, that's all.
02:43 Meodudlye: Alvaro: And since I'm not a hypocrite, I say it to your face.
02:44 PieRRoMaN: Damn, I missed a lot of stuff.
02:44 Alvaro: Meodudlye, sick in the face but elsewhere.
02:44 Alvaro: in
02:44 Meodudlye: By the way, I should probably send JPP an email telling him what I think of you, Alvaro.
02:44 Romanceor: PieRRoMaN: It's heating up, anyway... well, it seems so.
02:44 WikiSerein: Romanceor: Yes :/
02:44 PieRRoMaN: Romanceor: Exactly, I don't want to miss this ;)
02:44 Chaps_the_idol: Yeah, it's really sad to watch.
02:44 Romanceor: Blood from the guts of the spleen and brain! Blood from the guts of the spleen and brain!
02:45 Chaps_the_idol: Honestly, it's shameful in my opinion.
02:45 WikiSerein: Well, I propose we stop here. Now we know what's going on with this email.
02:45 WikiSerein: Everyone can form their own opinion...
02:45 Romanceor: Chaps_the_idol: I don't know the subject, but I feel I agree with you.
02:45 Alvaro: What email are they talking about?
02:45 PieRRoMaN: WikiSerein: No, I don't know, I missed everything.
02:45 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Just stop!
02:45 Meodudlye: hahaha Alvaro, you're really bad at pretending innocence.
02:45 hegesippe3: Chaps_the_idol, it's not our fault these regrettable lapses occurred: nothing obliges the person in question to multiply such petty acts.
02:45 WikiSerein: PieRRoMaN: I'm sure someone will send you the log, don't worry :-)
02:45 Alvaro scratches his balding scalp.
02:46 WikiSerein: Alvaro: We've been talking about an email for an hour.
02:46 WikiSerein: You've had the link three or four times.
02:46 WikiSerein: And you still haven't read it?
02:46 Romanceor wonders if the debate is about the balding man's senility.
02:46 Alvaro: I've been out of the loop for an hour.
02:46 hegesippe3: There's no worse deafness than that which refuses to hear.
02:46 Meodudlye: hegesippe3: Well, it's normal he pretends innocence. It's like a kid with jam on his cheeks saying: "It wasn't me who emptied the jar!"
02:46 PieRRoMaN hopes some charitable soul will send him the log.
02:46 Chaps_the_idol: hegesippe3: I know, but damn, I've talked to him several times, often I didn't agree, but to reach such a maneuver—no, no, and no, it's not normal.
02:46 WikiSerein: PieRRoMaN: Not me, I don't keep logs.
02:46 Meodudlye: PieRRoMaN: I have!!!! ;-)
02:47 Chaps_the_idol: To be blinded by hatred toward another to achieve such results—no, all means are not justified in reaching one's ends, NO.
02:47 gribeco: freenode isn't fun tonight...
02:47 Alvaro: Where the hell is the damn URL?
02:47 PieRRoMaN: ...
02:47 Meodudlye: Uh, Alvaro, are you drunk or what?
02:47 hegesippe3: Chaps_the_idol, well, you know, there was a time when I was genuinely shocked realizing I had seriously misjudged him.
02:47 WikiSerein:
http://www.jp-petit.org/nouv_f/wikipedia/wikipedia_derive1.htm
02:47 Chaps_the_idol: We've given you the link four times.
02:47 PieRRoMaN: Damn, even with four disconnects, I saw the link three times.
02:47 PieRRoMaN: At least.
02:47 Romanceor: Chaps_the_idol: Can I have a quick summary to know who to insult?
02:47 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Look at the link I just sent.
02:47 Alvaro: Thanks, WikiSerein.
02:48 Chaps_the_idol: Romanceor: No, actually, we don't want insults—we just want explanations for the insults.
02:48 Arria serves rhubarb pie and tea to Romanceor.
02:48 WikiSerein: Romanceor: The wonderful world of Wikipedia...
02:48 Meodudlye: Romanceor: No insults.
02:48 Alvaro: Sorry, too long, don't feel like reading.
02:48 Romanceor throws the pie at Alvaro and the tea at the others.
02:48 Meodudlye: Romanceor: The quick summary is:
02:48 WikiSerein: Alvaro: You're despicable, sorry...
02:48 Romanceor is hungry now.
02:48 Meodudlye: Romanceor: Alvaro constantly proclaims he's the apostle of wikilove and loves everyone.
02:48 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Do you understand this could be important?
02:49 Alvaro: WikiSerein, make a summary, it's annoying, personally.
02:49 Meodudlye: Romanceor: But behind the scenes, he goes to denounce his little comrades on the site of someone who deeply hates WP.
02:49 Romanceor: Meodudlye: Isn't that harmless? I love everyone too.
02:49 WikiSerein: Alvaro: I'll end up posting it on the channel—it's what you want?
02:49 Meodudlye: YES!
02:49 Romanceor: Ah, so it's a girls' fight, basically.
02:49 Meodudlye: That's what we want! ;-)
02:49 Romanceor: You're pulling each other's hair.
02:49 Meodudlye will deny having seen anything.
02:49 WikiSerein: Romanceor: There aren't many girls here ;-)
02:49 Alvaro laughs hard in his corner ;D
02:49 Romanceor: But Alvaro has no hair left, so you don't know where to grab anymore?
02:50 WikiSerein: Well, I fear flooding, so we'll do selected excerpts.
02:50 WikiSerein: "Hi JPP,
02:50 WikiSerein: Old motorcyclist that never changes ;D
02:50 Chaps_the_idol: Alvaro: Honestly, pull yourself together! Damn, I knew you smarter, because now it borders on ridiculous and you're really disappointing me, it's annoying.
02:50 WikiSerein: Actually, I saw (again!) a link to your site on the IRC channel, so I took a look and saw the latest developments."
02:50 Alvaro: I'm having trouble keeping up.
02:50 WikiSerein: So Alvaro has time to read occasionally...
02:50 Romanceor: Wow, the link is really tough... at least 50 pages.
02:51 hegesippe3 no longer sees anything, for a long time, but only Jacquouille la fripouille trying to extinguish the fire from the TV implosion with a bucket of vodka.
02:51 WikiSerein: Yes, but not easy. People who think are rarely "big talkers." And vice versa.
02:51 WikiSerein: "Back then, I was an arbitrator, just like Alain_r, and that's when I understood who he was and resigned. By the way, it's the same RamaR, admin on wp:fr and wp:en, who recently did this:"
02:51 Alvaro: Chaps_the_idol... I understand you're angry... but why?
02:51 Romanceor: WikiSerein: What you say makes sense, but history has often proven the opposite.
02:51 WikiSerein: "In any case, I initiated arbitrations against admins, which is what they reproach me ;D
02:51 Chaps_the_idol: Alvaro: because you're spreading things behind the back and doing white-paw operations on wiki—this attitude displeases me.
02:51 Meodudlye: Romanceor: It's not WikiSerein—it's the email Alvaro, the wikilove enthusiast, sent to JPP.
02:51 WikiSerein: Romanceor: What?
02:51 Romanceor trolls because he wants to go all the way.
02:52 WikiSerein: "Yes, thank you, but... it's not easy. The vast majority of Wikipedians don't want 'headaches.' Inérisme rules. When you point out where it hurts, you're seen as the troublemaker causing waves. And then, it's exhausting, tiring—all that, I'm not on WP for that."
02:52 Romanceor: Meodudlye: I never said the opposite.
02:52 Romanceor: WikiSerein: I was referring to "People who think are rarely 'big talkers.' And vice versa."
02:52 WikiSerein: "For info, Alain_r signed up on Citizendium, the 'experts' encyclopedia:"
02:52 WikiSerein: Romanceor: That's Alvaro's style.
02:52 Alvaro: Chaps_the_idol, when talking to JPP, I knew he'd use it his way.
02:52 PieRRoMaN listens to Bob Sinclar - Together
02:52 WikiSerein: "Since the Citizendium project isn't taking off (with contributors like him, no surprise ;-) I think he's trying to modify WP from within. His star has dimmed a bit, and he wasn't re-elected arbitrator in March 2008—already something."
02:52 Romanceor: My bad (yes, it's written that way)
02:52 Meodudlye: Alvaro: Stop taking us for fools—he quoted your email in full.
02:52 WikiSerein: "I saw that the one I thought would publicly attack Alain-r on WP chose to retreat instead.
02:53 WikiSerein: It's sad, but I don't hold it against him at all—he had only bad things coming and all this just to save a JPP who, in the eyes of many (the joys of misinformation), appears as a 'jerk' (a term used on IRC).
02:53 WikiSerein: Best regards
02:53 WikiSerein: ++
02:53 WikiSerein: Alvaro"
02:53 WikiSerein: That's it.
02:53 WikiSerein: Seems to summarize the situation, doesn't it?
02:53 Romanceor: I think you're all wrong to be fanatics.
02:53 Alvaro: And so?
02:53 Romanceor: Well then, I'm going back to my massive download of Von Sternberg.
02:54 Alvaro: JPP is a bit crazy, flying saucers, cough...
02:54 WikiSerein: Romanceor: ++ See you soon :-)
02:54 hegesippe3: Romanceor, we're not fanatics—we just want him to stop causing trouble wherever he goes.
02:54 Chaps_the_idol: Alvaro: You were warned he's capable of anything—you fell into the trap, deeply, you're not the first to fall into it, but you were clearly warned—simply, you're guided by your hatred of Alain_r, yet with your experience, you should be more cautious or at least less categorical about people.
02:54 Romanceor: :) A pleasant evening to all ^^
02:54 PieRRoMaN thinks Alvaro has completely lost credibility on this issue.
02:54 WikiSerein: Romanceor: In joy and good humor!
02:54 hegesippe3: bn
02:54 Chaps_the_idol: bn Romanceor, sorry for the exchanges.
02:54 Meodudlye agrees with PieRRoMaN (which is a good sign for Romania, which I don't mind at all ;-) )
02:54 Alvaro: But still, according to my info, he's a good vulgarian.
02:54 Meodudlye: Alvaro: Wake up, we're not talking about that.
02:55 WikiSerein: Alvaro: It's not about JPP's qualities here.
02:55 WikiSerein: But about your attitude—
02:55 Alvaro: Am I a piece of crap?
02:55 WikiSerein: for undermining people on his site
02:55 Meodudlye finds Alvaro lacks a positive attitude.
02:55 hegesippe3: Classic, to divert the conversation.
02:55 WikiSerein: and that it pleases him.
02:55 Chaps_the_idol: Alvaro: We didn't say that.
02:55 Alvaro: Should I leave? $
02:55 Meodudlye: Alvaro: Do you really want us to answer honestly?
02:55 WikiSerein: It gives him arguments against WP.
02:55 WikiSerein: Alvaro: Do what you want.
02:55 WikiSerein: But take responsibility, damn it!
02:55 Chaps_the_idol: No, just wake up because you're not hurting one but several contributors here.
02:55 PieRRoMaN: Well, given his responses, I think Alvaro has been making fun of us all along.
02:56 Meodudlye: PieRRoMaN: You think so?
02:56 hegesippe3: ah
02:56 Romanceor: hegesippe3: "Hate stimulates the health of fools," said Brel; whatever they are, continuing as if nothing happened is, I believe, the best solution.
02:56 hegesippe3: no
02:56 Meodudlye: Romanceor: The problem is that here, Alvaro is causing such chaos that it affects WP significantly.
02:56 WikiSerein: Romanceor: Except when it ruins others' lives :/
02:56 hegesippe3: Not by massacring good intentions along the way.
02:56 Romanceor: It's too unanimous to not be a conspiracy.
02:57 Meodudlye: Romanceor: TINC
02:57 Romanceor: I'm siding with the jerk.
02:57 WikiSerein: Romanceor: Uh...
02:57 Romanceor: :)
02:57 Meodudlye adds Romanceor's name to his imaginary black book that doesn't exist.
02:57 WikiSerein thinks Romanceor is bluffing.
02:57 Arria:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Young_Rheum_rhabarbarum.jpg
< rhubaaaaaaarbe
02:58 WikiSerein: Alvaro: I think we still gave you the chance to justify yourself, to possibly say no, you never wrote this.
02:58 WikiSerein: And we would've had to believe you.
02:58 WikiSerein: But now...
02:58 hegesippe3: There's actually no unanimity—between a hegesippe who clearly wants Alvaro out of Wikipedia-FR and others who are much more nuanced.
03:00 Meodudlye notes that Alvaro still hasn't answered Chaps_the_idol and WikiSerein's questions.
03:01 WikiSerein: Meodudlye: Forget it, I think on one hand the answer is clear, and on the other we won't get anywhere with someone who refuses to answer.
03:01 Romanceor: Alvaro is a Germanic name (
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvaro
) ==> the question is: "Are all Germans fascists?"
03:02 WikiSerein: Romanceor: I think we can even say the Germans are all Nazis, if you want a really big troll ;-)
03:02 Romanceor: I didn't dare.
03:02 WikiSerein: Usually it's much calmer :-)
03:04 Meodudlye thinks the arbitrators of the Al-Grimlock arbitration should be informed of Alvaro's latest exploit, so they don't make decisions on a whim.
03:04 PieRRoMaN knew Meodudlye wanted to say that all along :P
03:04 Meodudlye: PieRRoMaN: Not at all, I just thought of it while preparing my lemonade!
03:06 Meodudlye: PieRRoMaN: Well, I'm saying we should inform the arbitrators. I say this just to have a clear conscience that everything was done to enlighten them. I know perfectly well that these things don't guide most of them.
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